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Detroit downtown circuit (WIP thread)
#11
(05-07-2020, 12:21 AM)Wolf_pd Wrote:
(05-06-2020, 05:42 AM)checkpoint10 Wrote: Would be interested to know from any rFactor versions, whether they agree or disagree with the track widths I described above, and also elevation changes and bumps which are easier to feel in a game than on a video. Keeping in mind that any rFactor or other game versions are also interpretations by the authors so we should validate against videos and photos as much as we can.

Yup agreed. Btw, making it bumpy will be a challenge I think.

ICR2 does not have "bumps" like some of the other games do- the suspension in the game is just there as a setup feature because it changes the dynamics in how the car handles during momentum changes. Please- I beg you, don't try and put bumps into the track. None of the other tracks have this and the game wasn't designed for it. The tires can't "leave" the ground in ICR2.
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#12
I've tried to model bumps in my Kentucky speedway version and in my pre 1996 Milwaukee track (I'm not sure). I think it works pretty well Smiley
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#13
(05-07-2020, 03:53 AM)Pavel 69 Wrote: I've tried to model bumps in my Kentucky speedway version and in my pre 1996 Milwaukee track (I'm not sure). I think it works pretty well Smiley

I really don't see the point.

The tires can't leave the ground- so how can it affect handling.
We don't have adjustable dampers in ICR2, both first order (springs) and second order (dampers) are combined to one item in each corner- "shock" stiffness.

There is so much visual eye-candy that needs to be done for a proper detroit that this is almost a huge challenge in itself- why water down the track and focus on something which provides so little- like bumps.

Once again- I beg you to not focus on this.
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#14
(05-07-2020, 03:53 AM)Pavel 69 Wrote: I've tried to model bumps in my Kentucky speedway version and in my pre 1996 Milwaukee track (I'm not sure). I think it works pretty well Smiley

How did you do that? I don't have ICR2 installed anymore, so can't check for myself.
IIRS Driver Champion (2005-2007, 2010-2014)
IIRS Team Champion (2004-2014)
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#15
(05-07-2020, 04:29 AM)samsepi0l Wrote: I really don't see the point.

The tires can't leave the ground- so how can it affect handling.
We don't have adjustable dampers in ICR2, both first order (springs) and second order (dampers) are combined to one item in each corner- "shock" stiffness.

There is so much visual eye-candy that needs to be done for a proper detroit that this is almost a huge challenge in itself- why water down the track and focus on something which provides so little- like bumps.

Once again- I beg you to not focus on this.

It does unsettle the car similar like a slightly banked curbstone, so it is an addition, but I agree that we have to make sure that we first create the proper track before we take this detail.

I have been looking at rFactor tracks. In terms of trackwidth, the video will be a better source of information. rFactor could be used as a source for elevation possibly. I found a track where I could set a F1 lap and rFactor video and the elevation matched quite well.
Have to see how to dig that info out of the track though. Never been really into rFactor trackediting.
IIRS Driver Champion (2005-2007, 2010-2014)
IIRS Team Champion (2004-2014)
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#16
I have watched the detroit races many times and I feel the f1 recreation for gp2 is very accurate in terms of altitude changes. I've lapped this track in gp2 so many times I can do it in my sleep. I actually finished 6th here last time in my 100% race. I remember the track goes steeply uphill between what I call turns 2 and 3, and it goes back downhill after the hairpin next to the hotel and civic center (I actually stayed at this hotel and worked at this civic center in 2009 when I was in detroit).

You can download the gp2 track editor and the track from the gp2 website. You won't need to install the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxcruTrovXM
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#17
(05-07-2020, 04:46 AM)Wolf_pd Wrote: It does unsettle the car similar like a slightly banked curbstone, so it is an addition, but I agree that we have to make sure that we first create the proper track before we take this detail.

I have been looking at rFactor tracks. In terms of trackwidth, the video will be a better source of information. rFactor could be used as a source for elevation possibly. I found a track where I could set a F1 lap and rFactor video and the elevation matched quite well.
Have to see how to dig that info out of the track though. Never been really into rFactor trackediting.

I'm happy to agree with @samsepi0l on not doing bumps since the game doesn't simulate going over bumps in a correct way. Considering the default ICR2 tracks as a guide to what the game engine was intended to do, none of the tracks had "bumps" built in, even where there should be, like street circuits, Cleveland and Milwaukee.

We might still consider if there were subtle elevation changes outside the obvious two places that go uphill and downhill. I am also unsure about the 10m elevation change that one source mentioned - would be nice to have some way to measure it using Google Street View or something.
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#18
I am also wondering if the uphill climb continues past T3, it almost looks like it does on some videos but not easy to tell.

The downhill section also looks like it ends slightly past the right turn near the bottom of the hill. Although as I understand it, it's not so much a proper "hill" as it is a ramp down to a parking garage!
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#19
I have a 1080p japanese broadcast version of the 1986 usa detroit grand prix, if you want to watch that - it was actually quite an awesome race. Don't forget that those roads have been paved and changed and maintained tons of times between now and then, so street-view may not be the most accurate.
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#20
(05-07-2020, 07:43 AM)samsepi0l Wrote: I have a 1080p japanese broadcast version of the 1986 usa detroit grand prix, if you want to watch that - it was actually quite an awesome race. Don't forget that those roads have been paved and changed and maintained tons of times between now and then, so street-view may not be the most accurate.

If you can throw that onto YouTube - maybe keep it unlisted - that would be awesome.

Yeah we'll need to consider the changes over the years. The convention center section has most obviously changed (the downhill road is gone) but as CowtownBob mentioned it is possible to switch to an older aerial and the road is still visible.

I think the roads at the top of the hill may have slightly changed. The videos show that the track turns right onto Woodbridge St, but at some point, it crosses over to Jefferson Ave - there is a point where the two streets touch so maybe that's where it was. The 1999 aerial doesn't shed any more light into this, unfortunately.

Aside from that, I'm actually surprised how little development there's been in downtown Detroit, compared to say Long Beach where it's hard to find any trace of large sections of older layouts.
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